Interview with Yuriko Backes in Paperjam "Diversity is an asset for our country"

Interview: Paperjam (Marc Fassone)

Paperjam: The latest edition of the World Economic Forum's Global Gender Gap Report placed Luxembourg in 44th position in terms of women's participation in economic life. It also highlighted the country's very poor score in terms of the number of women in key positions, with Luxembourg placing only 114th place out of 146 in the ranking. What does this mean for you and how is the situation evolving?

Yuriko Backes: First of all, it must be said that the general context regarding the representation of women, both in the economy and in poli tics, has evolved in the right direction in recent years. We are progressing! If we look at the figures from the European Institute for Gender Equality, Luxembourg obtains a score of 75.4 points, which puts us above the European average.

Obviously, the situation is different from one economic sector to another. Take the financial centre, which is a very important sector for the country. As finance minister in the previous government, I had the opportunity to launch initiatives to promote women there. The Women in Finance programme, for example, aims to increase the representation of women in decision-making positions, whilst the Finance for Women programme helps direct financing towards projects led by women in the financial sector.

If we look more specifically at the positions held by women on boards of directors, the latest figures available, which date from 2024, show a representation rate of 38.6% on the boards of public establishments. In 2015, it was 27%. Things have changed a lot. We are not yet at the level aimed for by the ministry of equality, but we are seeing progress. And as long as we maintain this progress, we are moving in the right direction. As for the rate of women representing the state on these councils, it is 43.6%. And there, we are also seeing progress. The state is setting an example.

Finally, at the level of private companies, the percentage of women representing the state is around 35%. We are evolving more slowly, but we are still evolving.

All this is going in the right direction, but there is still a great deal of progress to be made before reaching a parity that would be as close as possible to the composition of society. With regard to private companies, however, the situation is less rosy. Whilst the European average of women members on boards of directors stands at 34%, we are at 23% in the grand duchy. This is not good.

Paperjam: How do you explain such a gap?

Yuriko Backes: The reasons are multiple, social, cultural...

Directive (EU) 2022/2381 of the European Parliament and of the Council of 23 November 2022 on improving the gender balance among directors of listed companies will make it possible to improve things by setting rules. It's a good thing. Listed companies in the EU that employ more than 250 people and have an annual turnover of more than 50m or a balance sheet of more than 43m must have either 40% of women amongst non-executive directors or 33% of women amongst all directors, executive and non-executive, by 30 June 2026. The previous government chose to entrust the transposition of this directive to the ministry of finance and the text is well underway.

Paperjam: What other levers do policymakers have to change things in the private sector?

Yuriko Backes: I believe that we must work in all directions, by multiplying initiatives. As minister of equality and diversity, I cannot do everything. The effort must be collective.

That said, I believe that we must start very early with awareness actions in the education system in order to show young people that no job is reserved just for men. We must fight against gender stereotypes that are still very widespread.

As the ministry of gender equality and diversity, we have launched several initiatives, like the "positive actions" pro gramme, which offers companies a framework and tools to advance on the issue of female representation in decision-making positions. Concretely, we facilitate an audit to show them how to improve and put in place an action plan.

Big names have participated, such as Cargolux, Clearstream, Cocottes, List, KPMG and Banque Raiffeisen, which has already been certified several times for its good practices. In this spirit of support for companies, we work closely with Inspiring More Sustainability (IMS) and the Diversity Charter Lëtzebuerg, the result of a public-private partnership with more than 320 signatory organisations from the public, associative and private sectors.

Paperjam: What motivates companies to participate in this type of programme?

Yuriko Backes: Participating companies are probably convinced that a better representation of women within them and I would say more broadly more diversity in general will be beneficial to them. But in the end, it is also a question of skills. Companies must ensure that the right people the competent people are in the right place.

And for that, it is sometimes necessary to support women more, so that they dare-I do mean dare to occupy certain positions, including positions of responsibility. All studies carried out converge on the fact that companies that promote diversity within them and within their management teams have better figures than those that do not make this effort. Their creativity is also better, as is their carbon footprint.

It is not just a social issue; it is also in the interest of the company. Everything is linked. We want to work with them both on equality and the representation of women, and on diversity in a more general way. I believe that both aspects are really fundamental and it is in the interest of companies.

Another action we are taking focuses more specifically on boards of directors: it is the Female Board Pool. This is an initiative aimed at facilitating women's access to boards. A database has been created and training is given to help women acquire certain specialisations that will facilitate their access. It's a commendable initiative. There are also equality officers in companies, as in the civil service and in the municipal sector. This is a network that the ministry actively supports.

Paperjam: On 7 November 2024, MPs voted for the creation of the Observatory for Equality between Genders. What is the role of this institution and its place in your policy?

Yuriko Backes: It is a tool managed by the ministry aimed at providing quantified and objective data to help actors working in the field of equality to make political choices. For me, it is important to make policy on the basis of figures and not on the basis of intuitions.

And it is on the basis of figures that the national plan for equality between women and men will be updated, for example. It's an update that will be presented by the end of the first half of the year. With all these measures and policies, we want to foster a structural and lasting change within companies in the world of work.

Paperjam: Is the gap between men and women in decision-making bodies not due to a shortage of female talent that would be more marked than the shortage of male talent? In other words, do we have sufficient resources in women to achieve equality?

Yuriko Backes: I do not believe that such a shortage exists. I have rather the impression that there are many talented women around us. You just need to look better and especially convince them to dare. We even see that women are ahead of men in many disciplines when it comes to university graduates.

Paperjam: All the actions you have mentioned are based on incentives and volunteering. Don't you think that the introduction of quotas is a more effective and faster way to move things forward?

Yuriko Backes: Personally, I am against quotas. But in the current situation, and the slowness of developments to achieve equality, they may be a necessary evil while waiting. It is about promoting women who are as qualified as their male colleagues and encouraging them to dare.

Paperjam: Are you going to take measures in this direction?

Yuriko Backes: No. There are some in the political field for the constitution of electoral lists. Forty percent of the lists for legislative elections must be made up of women; that figure is 50% for European elections. That's good. But this system seems difficult to transpose to the private sector.

Companies are responsible. It's up to them to act. And there would also have to be an evolution in our way of thinking.

Paperjam: Policies to promote diversity have grown considerably in recent years. The election of Donald Trump testifies to the emergence of a trend that challenges the merits of this movement. Can this trend affect Europe and Luxembourg? Is this a fear for you?

Yuriko Backes: It would be a real tragedy for our society. I am convinced that diversity and this goes beyond just gender equality is something positive for our society. And I will continue to fight for everyone to be treated the same way regardless of their gender, their beliefs, their origins and their practices.

Diversity is a fundamental right and an asset for our country. What I see in the United States scares me. Luxembourg is, above all, a country that has benefited for decades from a diverse society. We have grown at all levels thanks to our diversity.

Paperjam: Can what is happening in the United States happen in Luxembourg?

Yuriko Backes: Recently, two petitions opposed each other regarding the place of LGBTQ+ themes in education. At the end of the debate, I still have the feeling that in parliament, the vast majority of elected officials are progressive on these issues and advocate for inclusion and tolerance. That gives me hope. But we must not hide the truth: there are also conservative forces in Luxembourg who think that what is happening in the United States is a good thing. It would be a great failure for me if all the progress for which so many women and men have fought for decades were to be threatened.

This will not prevent us from continuing to act. The ministry is currently working on many files, including three action plans: the update of the national action plan on equality, the national LGB TIQ+ action plan and an action plan against gender-based violence, which is a first in the grand duchy. The three plans will be presented before the summer. We will also create a reception centre for victims of violence which brings together all medical, administrative and judicial ser vices, and which therefore allows those concerned to obtain help in one place. The start of the pilot project is scheduled for this April.